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TOPIC: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations

Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 1 year ago #26561

  • JimCosta
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Feel free to critique or discuss anything published in the Topic: Systematic Approach To Group Survival. This will allow me to go back and amend what was originally posted so that we all get it right. Thanks for your help. Jim
Last Edit: 2 months, 2 weeks ago by JimCosta.

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 1 year ago #26572

  • JimCosta
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Note to Readers:

I will be going back to each subsection and adding info and files. I expect to be finished by December 31, 2016. You might wait until then to read the narrative only once to get it all.

In the meantime, do read this: Prepping in a Nutshell
and watch this one hour seminar: Spotting Personalities



Gary Grifin: Please call me so we can discuss:

Is this too much?
Should I condense it and post on another site leaving just a link to free up your space?
What is the best way to add files for this?
How am I doing? Suggestions?
I need your physical mail address so I can send you a flash drive.
What's a woman really want?
Phone: 850-463-7711 CST day or night.
Last Edit: 1 year ago by JimCosta.

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 1 year ago #26611

  • JimCosta
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I am reading a book about the 1944 Normandy Invasion, comprised of only journals and writings from those that actually landed D-Day. Right in the midst of all these horrible accounts
of the terror, chaos, heroism and horror was one account that really stuck out.

It was from a British trooper that landed on Juno beach in the second wave. When he went ashore the beach had been taken from the Germans. The assignment for his group was to: Take the beach, move up 1.5 miles and capture four German cannons in a cow pasture, then bivouac there until the rest of the company joined them.

From the landing to the field they were unmolested. Inside the field they discovered the cannons had been removed by the Germans. So they camped. There were two dead cows in the field, the result of the morning's bombing. One trooper, a civilian butcher by trade, went to work. While the horror of war was all around them, they spent D-Day in an open field grilling steaks!

This is how our group hopes to go through the chaos, if and when it occurs. It is our choice.
Last Edit: 1 year ago by JimCosta.

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 1 year ago #26612

  • Thaddeus
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JimCosta wrote:
I am reading a book about the 1944 Normandy Invasion, comprised of only journals and writings from those hat actually landed D-Day. Right in the midst of all these horrible accounts
of the terror, chaos, heroism and horror was one account that really stuck out.

It was from a British trooper that landed on Juno beach in the second wave. When he went ashore the beach had been taken from the Germans. The assignment for his group was to: Take the beach, move up 1.5 miles and capture four German cannons in a cow pasture, then bivouac there until the rest of the company joined them.

From the landing to the field they were unmolested. Inside the field they discovered the cannons had been removed by the Germans. So they camped. There were two dead cows in the field, the result of the morning's bombing. One trooper, a civilian butcher by trade, went to work. While the horror of war was all around them, they spent D-Day in an open field grilling steaks!

This is how our group hopes to go through the chaos, if and when it occurs. It is our choice.


When Life gives you lemons.....make lemonade!

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 11 months, 1 week ago #26741

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There is a picture link in the article about the 4 foot cube food storage container.
But here it is again. Link To Picture

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 11 months, 1 week ago #26743

I got the picture/ ad for selling totes, I did not see a pic of your completed storage container made from the tote?


UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 11 months, 1 week ago #26745

  • JimCosta
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EMPTY



SEALED



Two Tons of Rice Stored.
Yellow Containers = 275 Gallons; White one = 300 Gallons.
Just as a precaution we sprayed a rubber sealant over the duct tape to prevent it from curling.
Total investment in each container is $85; stores 60 Cubic Feet each.

Today I found out from the vendor that they receive product in them weighing 2,100 lbs in a 275 Gallon cube. They stack one 2,000 lb load on another cube,for a maximum of two high.
Last Edit: 11 months, 1 week ago by JimCosta.

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 10 months, 1 week ago #26855

Questions and Comments to the Low Food Supplies, Uninvited Guests & Evictionpost in Systematic Approach To Group Survival Thread.

What will be or are the rules and regulations in regards to firearms with members in and around the farm?

Furlough and Eviction Policy if your actually going to do it should include removing those members to a holding area before hand, Weapons temporarily removed for safety precautions. Personally if it were me and I have been a member for a really long time and gave sweat and tears to the group and now knew you were going to kick me out I would either go ahead and leave and then come back or before I left I would assassinate all of the leadership.

In the overflow policy you talk about the houses across the road being utilized and the people living in overflow could help scout and guard the farm but what's to say someone that got kicked out isn't going to mention the farm when they come across some marauders and tells them all your security secrets and your weakness's out of revenge?

I really don't think you guys are going about this in the right way. Yeah have a minimum amount of food to join the group and after that start doing group purchases every month. If someone has been there 3 years and a new family recruit joins up meeting the requirements then as long as the new family is meeting the monthly $ for the mass purchase and other requirements they are equals.

Having the joint food and other equipment keeps everyone on the same playing field. If one person hurts everyone hurts. The way you got it set up now, if you end up kicking out a well liked person or family you are going to kill your units morale. You just may have other say F you and leave.

I think those overflow houses should only be used for guest. No one should be entering the farm unless they are really equipped where turning down the membership would really be stupid. If you let unfamiliar people inside the farm they will know your strengths and weakness's. What's to say you wont have a really friendly up beat marauder spy visit?

I have to comment about the rice storage again after reading the Low Food Supplies, Uninvited Guests & Eviction thread. I cannot believe you are not using Mylar and Oxygen absorbers giving your rice a 25-30 year shelf life. Your talking about kicking out members which include children because of a lack of food when you are basically wasting food by not storing it correctly.
Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by Materielgeneral. Reason: added text

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 10 months, 1 week ago #26857

  • JimCosta
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Response to the above posting:

Firearms: All adults will wear a hip gun. In addition all men and some women will have long guns.

Furlough Process: You make excellent points. The evicted person may leave his/her family at the farm. We may continue to support that person in some way, possibly. Then again we may have to just shoot that person if the threat is great enough. The bottom line is that there is the threat of eviction, first and foremost. If it is used, we will have to take great steps to protect the remaining group. You are right.

Overflow policy: Again you are right. We are giving ourselves options in a chaotic and dangerous future situation. But these are situations all groups will have to face in some way. There are no easy and right answers, just options and formal systems to address them instead of a lynch mob around the fire.

I really don't think: This might be good advice for a forming group but we are now formed. What is there is our contract with each other. We only count the food here at activation date; we give NO credit for good intentions, as a group, although individual familys may do so by sharing their food.

I think those overflow houses: I truly agree with you. The use of overflow will be a very hard decision made first by our Council and then it must be ratified by those (if any) in the overflow house to accept them.

I have to comment on rice: First of all, the non sharing of food was the decision of ALL members. Get that straight. It means no family, at this time, is willing to make a blanket statement that they will share their food later. A family can later change their mind and gift if that family so wishes.

Secondly we have three tons of rice. The rice costs $30 per 100 pounds. It will cost us almost that amount to repackage in mylar bags and buckets, not counting the labor to do so. So our decision here was to purchase twice the amount of rice needed. This covers the few bags that may spoil and also allows us to gift some if we so vote to do so. Therefore, we again are making options for ourselves later on.

Thirdly, We are not looking at chaos in 30 years, we see it happening within one year. Therefore, storing rice for 30 years is not on our radar. Fourthly, we recognize we cannot save the whole world and may have to make some hard decisions later on.

My final thought: What was originally posted was only what our group decided. Each group must, and should, make their hard decisions now so they can build in options in event of chaos. It is easier to think and plan while not under extreme stress.
Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by JimCosta.

Re: Systematic Approach To Groups - Conversations 10 months, 1 week ago #26858

I hope I did not come across to critical. I was not trying to attack your post, FYI. Sometimes I am to direct. It is the Staff Sergeant in me. In the Army we don't use enough tact sometimes. Because of our directness people on the civilian side may think we are A** holes. It is your group so really when it comes down to it, it is none of my business but since you posted it, if figured I would voice my opinion based on my experiences.

JimCosta wrote:
I have to comment on rice: First of all, the non sharing of food was the decision of ALL members. Get that straight. It means no family, at this time, is willing to make a blanket statement that they will share their food later. A family can later change their mind and gift if that family so wishes.

Thirdly, We are not looking at chaos in 30 years, we see it happening within one year. Therefore, storing rice for 30 years is not on our radar. Fourthly, we recognize we cannot save the whole world and may have to make some hard decisions later on.

My final thought: What was originally posted was only what our group decided. Each group must, and should, make their hard decisions now so they can build in options in event of chaos. It is easier to think and plan while not under extreme stress.


One of my earlier jobs while I was in the military as a new Sergeant was the duty of Retention NCO. One of the parts of that job was monitoring morale and keeping the 1st Sergeant and Commander notified. When I went to school to became a Staff Sergeant they taught you about keeping morale up in your troops. Bad morale can effect your units fighting capability.

I just see a lot of problems with your food program. I understand it was the groups members that voted on this but, when or if a long term SHTF happens and you start kicking people out especially when kids are involved your morale will take a hit. What are you going to do when a person that is mission essential like a gunsmith or the guy with the most tactical experience who trains your people how to fight runs out of food? What about the owner of the farm, if his family runs out of food? If you do not kick those people out, you will have a revolt.

I just don't think that the group members really pondered all of the angles?

There is nothing wrong with what ever food a single family stores personally stays private and personal. Your groups bulk rice in the totes, how will that be distributed and/or prepared? Is it for everyone?

How will meals be prepared? Will they be private single family or a group meal (potluck) where everyone eats together?

You wrote “We are not looking at chaos in 30 years, we see it happening within one year.” I remember Survivalist (what preppers used to be called) back in the 80's saying the same thing. If you have the funds to prepare for today and a little extra to prepare for tomorrow then why not? If you do not store your food (rice) for long term then how long does it last? Just trying to get an idea on your cost with turn over and how often. That's the Quartermaster in me thinking.

I think that having a group food storage is the way to go but that is just my opinion and I am not trying to force it down your throat. Just writing down my observations. I'll shut up now on this subject unless you want me to answer something or if something is just to tempting to not too. :)
Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by Materielgeneral. Reason: added text
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